topic Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)? in Android TV

Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Jecht_Sin — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 07:48:17 GMT

I'd like to know from anyone who bought an Apple TV 4K if the HDR content in Netflix looks better. Since the first time I subscribed to Netflix I always struggled with the HDR content. Yesterday I've found out, at least with Stanger Things, that the only way to remove the fog effect (and not even completely on dark scenes) on my Bravia XD8099 has been to raise the Gamma to max.

Does the Apple TV 4K (or any other HDR TV Box for the matter of discussion) get a better HDR output than the original app in Netflix? What about the Netflix audio? Does it go above DD+ 5.1?

PS: Is the Apple TV 4K 64GB available in UK? I can't find a single one available anywhere in Italy. Unless of waiting 4-5 weeks from Apple.

Betreff: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

IamNic — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 20:23:37 GMT

Jecht_Sin schrieb:
PS: Is the Apple TV 4K 64GB available in UK? I can't find a single one available anywhere in Italy. Unless of waiting 4-5 weeks from Apple.

According to the Apple online shop it is.

Betreff: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Jecht_Sin — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 06:41:45 GMT

@IamNic wrote:
Jecht_Sin schrieb:
PS: Is the Apple TV 4K 64GB available in UK? I can't find a single one available anywhere in Italy. Unless of waiting 4-5 weeks from Apple.
According to the Apple online shop it is.

Meh.. Not really. I have checked with the London postal code "WC2N 5DU" and it says Dec 18 in all shops.

Betreff: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

IamNic — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 11:46:32 GMT

I didn't proceed to the checkout.

I did assume it would say right on the store page, if it was not available currently.

- Nic

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Jecht_Sin — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:33:12 GMT

So, I have eventally bought an Apple TV 4K (just the 32 GB since the 64GB is MIA. Nowhere to be found!) and to answer my own questions this is my initial feeling:

ATV 4K Settings:

Format: 4K SDR 60Hz
HDMI Output: YCbCr 4:4:4 - I could choose RGB High or Low but I honestly didn't notice any difference
Match Content: Range & Frame rate - to switch automatically to HDR when needed
Surround Sound: Best Quality Available - I have a Yamaha RX-v483 with 5.1 physical channels. Support up to 7.1

The first impression is that in SDR the image generally looks darker than on Android with the same picture settings. So much that I disabled the Light Sensor, otherwise previously enabled to reduce the "fog effects" even in SDR. I am not sure if it is a placebo effect.

It takes a bit of time to start a video because of the range matching (none if always in HDR or SDR). The ugliest thing was that each time the infamous HDMI banner was appearing. But fortunately Sony, in the last Android update, must have introduced the option to disable the banner for good.

Netflix:

It looks great in SDR (with the light sensor disabled as mentioned).
In HDR series like "The OA" still show their entire ugliness
I am not sure how it works, but if I set the ATV 4K always in HDR, some Netflix shows get advertised as Dolby Vision instead of HDR. In SDR there is no mention that a show is in HDR.
The audio seems slightly improved, but again it can be a placebo effect

Amazon Prime Video (yes, it's there!):

The main page is similar to Android TV. Much faster - one can easily scroll between the shows - but maybe less complete - the management of the content watched is absent for example
The video player uses the standard tvOS interface. Which is glorious. I can change audio and subtitles languages on the fly (impossible in Android TV). Skip 10s back and forward with a click. Jump forward and backward selecting the position with the remote touchpad.
The image in both HDR and SDR is great. With black bars (and not gray as in the TV) in non 16:9 videos
It reaches UHD resolution quite immediately
The audio never stutters.
I do see 5.1 channels using the "Straight" mode in my AVR (there has been reports that it plays only "2.1 audio"), but not in all TV shows/movies. In Android TV it seems to be always 5.1
The lip sync, at least in a show I watched yesterday, was still broken. In Android I can fix it jumping backward and forward. Not so in the ATV 4K.

MEDIA PLAYERS:

Infuse 5:

There is a month of free trial for the Pro version and it is.. amazing. The Pro version costs £14.99/€16.99. Othewise there are annual and monthly subscriptions.
It supports NFS/SMB/SSH/FTP/WebDAV (as Kodi does)
It builds all libraries for movies and TV shows (as Kodi does)
It supports the subtitles, but only from OpenSubtitles
It plays nearly all video formats. vp9.2 is not supported in ATV 4K and sometime it plays the video downloaded from YouTube as well. Hmm.. Pieces of videos. Not reliable for vp9.2 (and no automatic HDR either).
It supports Hi-Res audio, up to DTS-HD, with its own codecs (but paying a royalty and thus the high price). And it sounds amazing. Honestly in a video I jumped when an iron gate ( ) was opening
Never a buffering as long as both the ATV 4K and NFS server (my MacBook Pro) are wired. With my MBP connected via WiFi (even at more than 300Mbps) it was a mess. But I suspect something is wrong with the network services and WiFi in macOS at this point.
Anyway, it's a must buy

Plex:

A mess as in Android TV. With the server transcoding and transcoding and then transcoding. It might be ok for people with powerful CPUs for the servers, but it becomes unusable for 4K content using an i5 CPU like mine

Kodi:

I didn't find a way to install it. I mean, I followed the guides, but I don't know how to register my ATV 4K even for only 7 days. I should investigate better, in case.

APPS SUPPORTED:

It depends on the Country. In Italy it is missing quite some popular apps. TIMvision, Infinity, Mediaset and so on. Android TV on that side is much better. In UK there are more apps supported (and now the Apple TV app as well).

So my conclusion is that in terms of quality of image it is worth it. And so it is in terms of audio passthrough. In terms of network and CPU performances there is no contest, with the ATV 4K obviously being the clear winner. It integrates well with my Bravia 49XD8099. In terms of apps it's good to still have Android TV as a backup, to cover the apps missing. Still, I do not regret the purchase at all! The apps I need are there, especially, finally, a great and fast media player!

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Kuschelmonschter — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:45:27 GMT

Jecht_Sin schrieb:
But fortunately Sony, in the last Android update, must have introduced the option to disable the banner for good.

This option has always been there .

The audio never stutters.
The lip sync, at least in a show I watched yesterday, was still broken. In Android I can fix it jumping backward and forward. Not so in the ATV 4K.

Lip sync and judder are both indications for improper synchronization of audio and video. The judder is often an attempt to re-sync the two. So seems like Amazon is having problems with it on multiple platforms. I have seen it play very well on Samsung TVs and Fire TV though.

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Jecht_Sin — Wed, 20 Dec 2017 10:25:30 GMT

@Kuschelmonschter wrote:
Jecht_Sin schrieb:
But fortunately Sony, in the last Android update, must have introduced the option to disable the banner for good.
This option has always been there .

I don't know.. It was there, but it didn't disable the banner on HDMI when I tested it months ago. Then it was my understanding it worked only with the TV channels banner. I retried now because I remembered I had read that post, and with the ATV 4K it was flashing continuosly. Still, it's gone an that's all that matters!!

About Amazon.. I have no clue. Some videos were fine. Another couple were not ideal at all. And as far as I checked the audio worked perfectly from my PS4 as well (but I should test with the same videos at this point). I will have better info once my Netflix subscription expires the end of the year (I watch just Netflix right now to make the most out of the subscription). Who knows, maybe in the meantime we'll finally get the update for Android TV as well! Not that I care for it anymore..

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Jecht_Sin — Fri, 22 Dec 2017 06:37:53 GMT

@Jecht_Sin wrote:
Kodi:
I didn't find a way to install it. I mean, I followed the guides, but I don't know how to register my ATV 4K even for only 7 days. I should investigate better, in case.

Aaand.. I managed to install Kodi as well!!! It was getting stuck with an error in Xcode because I must have selected a "virtual" Apple TV instead of the one connected via network. Once I selected my ATV 4K it automatically started to fix the error in Xcode (something about the provisioning profiles, the ones that limit the usage for 7 days), it created the new profiles and after signing them with iOS App Signer I could install it in the Apple TV 4K!

So.. Audio passtrough does work, DTS & included. But it doesn;t seem to recognize the HDR, if the Apple TV is set in SDR with the range (for the HDR) matching. And it is blazing fast!! It loads Kodi to the skin in one second or so!

As a comparison I tried to load Kodi in Android TV. I can't believe how much I suffered. It's like going from a Ferrari to a mule.

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Jecht_Sin — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 08:35:09 GMT

@Kuschelmonschter Did you know that... after a factory reset the Apple TV restores all apps as they were, even with the Home configuration (folders etc.) as they were before resetting?! Only the logging credentials in the various apps (YouTube, Netflix Amazon) were lost (probably for security reasons).

I couldn't believe my eyes!! I was ready to waste a couple of hours like I must do with Android TV every time, and the chicky b. nearly completely reconfifgured itself!!

Now.. When are we going to get the same thing in that amazing Android TV??

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Kuschelmonschter — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 07:15:11 GMT

Jecht_Sin schrieb:
Now.. When are we going to get the same thing in that amazing Android TV??

Coming closer every week. Played around with one in a Swiss MediaMarkt store. Would get the 4K for 150€ there.

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Kuschelmonschter — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 13:25:40 GMT

Bought one today. Already loved it after 10 minutes of using it. Setup with the iPhone was a breeze. Love how the keyboard pops up on the iPhone as soon as there is a text input on the TV. And it just works.

Also 4K HDR content on iTunes at the same price as HD SDR stuff.

Sony and Android TV are so far behind.

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Jecht_Sin — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 08:20:55 GMT

@Kuschelmonschter wrote:
Bought one today. Already loved it after 10 minutes of using it.

I knew I was tempting you!

Have you checked the Amazon Prime Video app? A whole different life! basically.. It works!! And don't forget to check Infuse as well, since I understood you have quite some stuff in a NFS server. The Pro version is a bit pricey, but there is a month of free trial. Then I don't know in Germany, but in Italy if you buy the annual subscription through the tvOS settings (forgot where exactly, but it is easy to find) it is 25% cheaper..

PS: Only €150??

PPS: do not update to 11.3 beta! It's a bit of a mess right now. 11.2.5 instead is just great.

Re: Apple TV 4K, audio and HDR Sony Bravia ATV2 (especially Netflix)?

Kuschelmonschter — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 08:32:50 GMT

Yeah, I of course checked out the Amazon Video app and for the first time it was fun to use. Menus are snappy and playback did not exhibit a single video stutter or audio dropout. Audio is Dolby 5.1.

I use MrMC which is a fork of Kodi. I can access my PVR backend with that. It played everything I threw at it perfectly fine. 576i25 MPEG-2 was software decoded, perfectly deinterlaced and upscaled. The image processing of the Apple A10X chips is really good. Better than everything I have seen so far from other settop-boxes. 1080p24 VC-1 (Blu-ray format) has also properly been software decoded. It even played those 2160p60 VP9 YouTube videos. There has been slight stutter in those though. Not sure yet whether it is due to 60p timings or software decoding 4K VP9. Will check some HEVC...

Motion was great across the board thanks to refresh rate switching.

Apple TV also has way more native apps that are actually useful compared to Android TV. Finally I have the Sky Ticket and Eurosport Player app directly on the TV.

While playback and service diversity on the Apple TV 4K are just great, usability unfortunately isn't, at least here in Austria. I didn't realize that Siri and the TV app are still not available here. That hurts a lot as these are really key features.